ODP TRYOUTS – WHAT SEPARATES PLAYERS
Trying out for ODP teams can be a very stressful time - before, during and after. When tryouts are over I often get e-mails and calls asking for evaluations of the players so they can work on what they need to do to improve. With hundreds of quality soccer players trying out it is impossible to give individual evaluations. However, there are some areas of the game that are the MOST COMMON in separating players from one level to another. These may be helpful in evaluating one’s own child, oneself or the player you coach.
1) First touch on the ball. Do you control the ball or does the ball control you? This is easy to see and those who have the ball controlling them can never make the step to a high level. First touch may well be the first thing to look at.
2) Speed of play. This is more in relation to what I cal “soccer speed”. How fast can one execute a technical requirement of the game. Can a payer (under pressure) take a pass and as quickly and efficiently as possible execute the next play.
3) Tactical decisions. Even if the player does things with effective speed, then the question becomes: is the player making the best decision possible and how fast does that player see the options.
4) Does the player make the game better? This can be due to overall ability, athleticism and a good “soccer brain”. It can also be because that player does something extremely well that a coach may feel overrides the deficiencies. For example – the player is a great 1v1 player, but lacks defensive instincts or great passing. Maybe the player is a fantastic defender but lacks elsewhere. The essential question is does the player have a chance to make the team better as opposed to just holding his own (not a good standard to use in making an ODP team).
Needless to say, there are other things that can factor in – especially at the younger age groups where sizes of players are so varied. Coaches are always asking the question: “While this player may not be able to compete athletically now, can he be one of the best when he does catch up with the athletically advanced players?” We certainly try and select those players even if they do not seem to be as effective as some who do not make it.
At the end of the day our staff can safely say that anyone who is selected has deserved to be, but we also know there are some not selected who are very good players. For those the greatest challenge is to now look at their game and really try and improve the above areas in particular. The higher the level the less time and space players have to be effective. Work on speed of play, speed of execution and speed of thought.
Feel free to give your thoughts…
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45 comments:
thanks for your comments. it does help to see things this way. My son did not make it, but we thought it was a real good experience. Goodluck.
How can some kid who is far better than another one on his club team not make the final tryout and the other guy does - who is clearly not as good?
Please consider in the future allowing the kids that did not play ODP the previous year to play against and with kids that played ODP the previous year. This may create a more level playing field for each kid to get a fair look and play with and agaist players of all skill levels. Sometimes when a talented player is grouped with others at a lower skill level it is more difficult to display his skills, particularly with tactics and making the game better. Although I'm sure you make every effort to give all the kids a fair look, by separating out the previous ODP players it gives the appearance of favoritism and gives those kids an obvious leg up in the tryout process. Can you please explain your thoughts on this?
Let me explain how a player might be cut who is possible better than one called back. In the first rounds we ask the coaches to decide on the players they feel will definitely not be good enough to make the final roster. Some players show us that in the first tryouts. Some players "hide" and do not show anything one way or the other. Often they get to a second round. At this stage a player who "hides" and still has not made an impression one way or the other, usually does not make it farther. Obviously the ones who make the final roster are those who do more than hold their own, but make an impact in some way. So - it can happen that one player gets cut at one stage even though he is better than a call back. The call back kid simply hasn't shown us yet that he is in the group that will not make the team.
Hope this makes sense. www.ktsoccerworld.com
Response to "Tryout improvements":
Thanks for your comments. This is the first year we decided to do the tryouts this way. The reasoning is valid: We can be fairly confident that players seected last year will almost certainly be good enough to at least get to the second round of tryouts. Therefore haveing them at the first rounds takes away from closer evauations of the kids who are there. So it realy intended not to be a benefit to last year's pool players, but a benefit to those trying to make it for the first time. Your point of new payers playing against returning has merit, however, I truely doubt it would change a decision regarding a player cut from the first round. It does become very important in the folowing rounds. We are certainly aware that the perception of favortism could comeout form this decision, but it honestly makes the process easier for the coaches to do. Hope this makes sense. We are not locked into this policy, but all the coaches felt it really heped with regard to seeing new payers. Thanks.
www.ktsoccerworld.com
I agree, having the previous ODP players not participate in the first round makes sense. I've seen this done with tryouts for other sports but with those teams the kids were all mixed in later rounds and were evaluated by people who had not coached them before.
Although the previous year ODP players attended the later rounds, they played among themselves (only 2 or 3 were mixed with those that did not play ODP the previous year). This allows them to play with others at a high skill level and to play with others who they are familiar with, which helps quite a bit with feeling comfortable on the field, tactics, etc. If you separate out the previous ODP players in future tryouts, I suggest only doing so in the first round, and then mixing them all together randomly. Also, I would try to have all the players evaluated by people who were not involved in coaching the ODP players the previous year (you could have coaches evaluate age groups they have not coached).
agree that returners should be mixed in with others. they were in my son's age group. Don't agree that past coaches should not be there. They have great knowledge on those kids which can only help for the best selections. I was impressed with the amount of different coaches I saw there.
Maryland ODP favors brothers and sisters of players that have played in the program. Teams are diluted and top players are staying away
Coaches with non impressive credentials in Maryland ODP. Not worth the money. Stay away.
For the record:
4 years ago there were 6 ODP age groups. MD ODP placed 14 players total into the regional pool - the main objective of the program -to move top players to the next level.
The region dropped th eoldest age group so starting 3 years ago there were 5 age groups. In each of the last 3 years there have been between 30 and 45 players slected to the regional pools. Maryland has had more players in the national youth pools/teams in those past 43 years than any of the 6 years prior. Someting to be very proud of instead of bashing.
These are stats - not opinions.
Trying to be constructive, I agree on mixing ODP players in with everybody during tryout. I heard negative comments about that during tryouts from kids and parents.
Coach...several questions...
1) Appreciate if you could please describe the role of player development in the ODP program.
I have read that ODP gives the players a chance to play against better players. Beyond that, how does ODP specifically develop players?
2) How does participating in or not participating in the overseas trip hurt / help a player? What if we are financially contrained?
Thank you. ODP Parent.
When is it too young for an underage kid to try out for or play ODP? We saw some really small kids out there.
Just read the last several comments... glad I didn't read a couple of them prior to hitting the golf course today or I may have left more divots than I did!
Thanks to the last ones for bringing this back on topic. I certainly want this to be a productive forum and not have anything like what hapened on some other forums... I will leave it at that. Before the end of the day I will give feedback on the questions regarding the internationa trips and the age of tryout participants. First I need to ice my back due to the last 2 holes! (PS I am in Florida now with family and not playing golf in the DC area!)...
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1) Appreciate if you could please describe the role of player development in the ODP program.
I have read that ODP gives the players a chance to play against better players. Beyond that, how does ODP specifically develop players?
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I can speak for what we try to do in Maryland to help the development of these players:
1) Training sessions -more or less weekly- that do indeed bring the best with the best (no better way to develop).
2) Sessions that are designed to make the elite player player better. Many players at this level actually have bad habits - they get away with these habits at the club level just because they are more skilled or athletic. We try and recognize these and create the types of habits that will succeed at the regional, national or collegiate level. I select coaches based on how well I believe they can identify current and potential talent, and how skilled they are at improving an "elite" player in a short amount of time.
(Anyone can improve a bad or average player. I believe our sessions and experiences allow the top players to truely improve.
2) Competitions - We try and expose these players to competitive environemnts that force them to have better habits, decision making, etc. Aside from scrimmages and the Region 1 tournament and ID week, the international trip is our best vehicle for really testing our players and thereby improving them (More on that soon).
3) Our players know that our coaches get out to watch them with their club teams when possible and they are expected to make a difference (just as one would expect our full national team players to be a positive influence on their professional teams). We believe that this gives those players a strong sense of resonsibilty and respect to the game at a high level.
3) The biggest benefit that comes form the ODP is usualy exposure to college coaches - especially as players get older. Each of our age groups has at least one college coach working with the team. This helps give that insight to the college level and what it takes to succeed there.
4)I suppose one could say that the development comes from a similar experience to going to a few soccer camps - only this "camp" has all excellent players in it that push each other to higher levels.
Now - not all players respond well to being "pushed" out of their comfort zone. In the end, they will have a tough time making it. Often players are asked to play positions they do not play with their club teams. Some "fight" this. It is, however, extrememly common to be tried out at a different position when a player moves up the ladder or goes to college. One US Youth and now full team capped player - Jon Spector - was a forward until he got to the U-17 residency program.
The less versite you are, the better you need to be at what you do. I beieve we help players with this quality.
That is a nutshell of where the development part comes in. Obviously the ODP tournament is major challenge to the players as is the ID week. Everything we do is to prepare them to do their best at those events.
More on the International trips shortly...they are the best of the best in development...
See new blog for information on the International trips... Thanks.
When is it too young for an underage kid to try out for or play ODP? We saw some really small kids out there.
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There were some small coaches out there too! (5'7" here... ).. I know that's not really what you meant.
We cannot restrict who tries out for the ODP as per US Amateur Act Rules and Regs... We can only hope that any parents or coaches use good judgement as to when is the best time to have a young player tryout. There were a few incredibly talented players whom I am told may have been as young as 10. Our coaches first job is to select the best players there regardless of anything - age, size, etc... As you can imagine the youngest age group is very difficult to select due to both the great variances in size as well as the fact that the talent level was extremely high and deep.
Any younger players who make the team will be watched closely as to their ability to deal with playing up. In general this is a great benefit to those players and they often end up being our most influential down the road.
PEOPLE: THE PURPOSE OF THIS BLOG WAS TO ANSWER SOME WUESTIONS PEOPLE HAD ABOUT ODP TRYOUTS AND EVALUATIONS. IT WILL NOT BECOME A FORUM FOR BASHING ANYONE OR ANYTHING. THOSE COMMENTS WILL BE DELETED. COME ON NOW. THANKS TO THOSE WHO ASKED SOME GOOD QUESTIONS AND GAVE GOOD COMMENTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS. THAT IS WHAT IS VALUABLE TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE GAME. NOTHING GOOD COMES FROM THE BASHING THAT PEOPLE HIDE BEHIND IN CYBERSPACE. I WELCOME APPROPRIATE CRITICISM - ESPECIALLY COMMENTS THAT COME WITH SUGGESTIONS. PLEASE RESPECT THIS AS THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS ARE A REAL DISRESPECT TO THE GAME OF SOCCER AND THE EFFORTS OF MANY TO MAKE IT THE BEST IT CAN BE. THANK YOU.
Coach: Off topic, but what are your thoughts on the new academy program and how it affects the way things have been - especially with ODP?
Coach:
Four major improvements that you make this year from the previous years:
1. Seperate the players from the previous year and the new players. This will allow the coach to better evaluate the new players.
2. Trim down the players for coaches to look at them. Each coach can only evaluate at no more than 20-22 players.
3. The jersey numbers are only 2 digits except some '95 born players. This allowed the administrator and evaluaters to minimize the mistakes by keying in or writing down the numbers.
4. Allow only the called back players to come to tryout at the next rounds. The previous year, you were careless of checking in the called back players. Some aren't supposed to come to the next rounds but they showed up anyway.
Suggestions:
1. Your odp coaches should come out more often to see the league plays and state cup competition.
2. Your coaches should contact the club coaches if they have any doubts with the players or any good potential player.
3. Player' s profile is another way to identify a player but it's not very important.
How to develop the players from the odp program is the major challenge and I doubt that you do much.
To the last post: Constructive till the very end... not sure why that is needed to be honest...
Regarding the rest:
We ask the ODP coaches to try and get to games. They are almost always at games at local tournaments when they can and also at state cup games - this way they see more teams in one day. Individual league games are harder for that reason. In an ideal world we would be making all our choices form league games - of course that would require full time ODP coaches...
Information from club coaches is very important and we do have some interaction. Some of that is us to them and some is the club coaches to us. I would definitely be receptive to any coach contacting me about a player they thought is one of the best of the best. We always do our best to get to see players recommended like that.
Regarding player profiles - in 22 years at Georgetown I saw very few that didn't seem to be good on paper, so I wouldn't go for that.
Thanks for the constructive comments and suggestions.
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REGARDING THE ACADEMY PROGRAM:
I will write a blog on that tomorrow, but in short I think it is a great concept and hope that it really does help the development of the game. It will take a few years before the kinks are sorted out, but hopefully it is a good start to something postive for the game.
I think it was a great experience for my son. Fortunately he made the team, but even if he hadn't I would still feel the same way. I feel the kids that made it worked very hard and came to every tryout. There were a few kids that didn't come to all and got there sometimes an hour late, after the other kids were already frozen! I feel the coaches did a great job! We look forward to our experience with ODP. We know other kids that have done it in the past and found it to be a great experience for their sons.
Just to be sure everyone knows that no posts will be allowed on here that are derogatory towards anyone or anything. Constructive criticism is fine and welcomed...preferably with suggestions. I had the unfortunate experience of reading another soccer forum a few times that has since been closed due to the negativism that ran throughout it. That won't happen here. The purpose of this was for informational reasons and to be to answer legitimate questions. Lets keep it that way please. Thank you.
Unfortunately my sons experience at ODP was not favorable, he went to an evaluation session only to find that 75% of his previous ODP players did not return. When we called around, the players are playing in the Academy League for the training and exposure. We did not return to the ODP tryouts and are looking into Academy teams. Godd luck ODP.
Once the holiday season is over and the state office is open again, I will post the % of returning players who tried out; returning players who made the team again, etc. The 92 age group had the most academy players, but I am not sure what the exact percentage is (but doubt it is as high as 75%). Whatever it is I will post accurately.
Also posted on Academy page:
Everyone - we are all trying to do the same thing. Help the progress of development in this country. The vehicles are numerous and give plenty of options - academy, ODP, super Y, US Club, US Youth, etc... If it was clear-cut that any of them was THE way, then the others wouldn't be around.
ODP's ;landscape will change under the current Academy rules. The decision to not allow Academy players to participate in ODP was not a philosophical opposition to ODP. It was a practical decision based on what would be conflicting events. (During most of ODP's international trips are some of the mandatory Academy events).
The Academy players are not registered with US Youth soccer - just with US Soccer. ODP is run by US Youth Soccer and, therefore, only allows players registered with them to be a part of their programs.
Maryland ODP (and other smaller states with Academy teams) will be affected more than some for sure. Fortunately, there are a lot of extremely talented players around. Anyone who saw the 95 and 94 tryouts can see the depth of talent.
As I have said before- I hope that both the Academy and ODP programs can be an important part of identifying players for the "next level". Clearly, as always, the clubs take on the most important role of developing players as they have them all the time. This has always been the case and always will be.
What is the criteria and selection process to select ODP coaches.
Larger college coaches (UMD, UMBC, Towson, Navy, and even DC United and the Blast) appear to gravitate to club soccer coaching and training.
Re: Selection of ODP Coaches.
The short answer is that we try and get the best mix of experienced coaches as well as promising young coaches that can make the time commitment, and are willing to do it for the pay. ODP Head coaches get $1800 for the year and assistants get $1300.(They can make thousands more coaching club).
Some other criteria:
• Be able to communicate with and develop players.
• Know the criteria for regional and national levels of play.
• Have the ability to enthuse and motivate players.
• Provide a positive role model and leadership qualities.
• Put forth the level of effort and dedication expected by coaches at this level.
• Some preference should be given for coaches with significant playing experience.
(Most of this comes out of our ODP handbook.)
Interestingly, all of the coaches at the schools mentioned have coached in the ODP program at some time (state and/or regional level). Our current staff includes college coaches that are both from the D-1 schools and D-3 schools in the state. Needless to say, there are good coaches in and out of the college ranks. Other coaches have grown into the positions via their work as assistants in the program under some veteran coaches.
It is very hard for the major college programs to stay involved due to their busy summer schedule. As you probably know summer camps are a major part of college coaches income so the ODP can create difficult conflicts.
What current Maryland ODP head coaches also coach at D1 colleges.
Currently - both 91 coaches are the Navy coaches as wel as Russell Oayne who is with the 95s is asst at Maryland.
I was at Georgetown when I returned to ODP a few years ago and Curtis Landy - 94 Head Coach was with Howard.
Kyle Swatrz from Loyoa wil be one of our Goalkeeper coaches.
All of the D-1 schools Head Coaches in MD have been in ODP at some time or another.
My son was on the MD ODP team for the last three years, and he tried out this year, but didn't make the team this year.
From his perspective ODP is great program. He thinks he learned a lot over the years from the time he was with the team, and from the try-outs also. He especially liked the two overseas trips he experienced, which exposed him to some fantastic soccer, gave him a lot of confidence in his soccer abilities, and taught him about personal responsibility too. He also often said that he loved playing and practicing with the ODP team, given the high-level of the other players on the team.
Perhaps my son’s best vote of confidence for the ODP program was that after learning he didn't make the team this year, he said that he would definitely try out next year, if he doesn't hook up with an academy team before then. And specifically about being cut after three years with the ODP program, he said he had confidence in the coaches’ decisions, that he was given a fair shot at the try-out, and had no questions for the coaches as to why he didn't make the team this year ... In fact, he said he recalled other parents and players questioning the coaches decisions in prior years, and said that this was not something he wanted to do, as he felt this served to undermine the play that takes place on the field. He said that his play on the field is the only thing he is concerned about, and that this where he will continue to focus his attention for the future. I think he learned a lot of this perspective from his ODP experiences and the guidance of his ODP coaches.
Thanks to all the ODP coaches to teaching my son so many soccer and life lessons over the last several years, and all the best to the MD ODP program in 2008!
My son made ODP again this year. My only recomendation is that I would prefer to see more D1 level coaching involvement from active coaches. I have yet to see involvment in trying to assist the kids get into college as the club coaches do. I have called out to the three local academy coaches to learn more based on what I am hearing.
from ations and Maryland ODP is that I would prefer to see more active
Thanks for the words regarding the experience that the one player had despite not making the team this year. The way he is handling it (and the parent's are handling it) is the type of example that we need more of. Most of the time we like to point blame at someone or something else, but I have always believe that missing the bulls eye is rarely the fault of the target. :) This is the type of player who will focus himself well to give the best chance to improve from his experiences. Well done with the approach and good luck in the New Year.
www.ktsoccerworld.com
Regarding college advisement,etc in ODP.
Needless to say, club coaches have always had the opportunity (and obligation) to provide as much help with the college process as possible to the players on his team. That coach has the players far more than the ODP coaches do.
However, the ODP coaches are a great resource for the players and I can guarantee you that it is highly unlikely a college coach will not contact the ODP coach or me regrading a player he may be interested in.
The Regional ODP program has included in it each summer now a "seminar" on the college recruiting/selection process.
I am not sure if you had a specific idea in mind. If you do I would love to hear it.
Remember that club coaches (US Youth teams , academy teams or whatever) will always have the most ability to spend a significant amount of time with their players and their college process. Many clubs set up college seminars to help with that. As with anything, some do better than others.
Let me know if you have a suggestion that we could put into play. Thanks.
Happy New Year to everyone.
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I think there should have been more 7 v 7 and less 11 v 11 at the tryouts. This would have meant less standing around and more playing time and touches on the ball. It also would let the coaches better see what players can do with the ball in small spaces.
Are you finding that the coaches of teams in Maryland that are successful at the regional or national level are not supportive of players participating in ODP?
Are you finding that the coaches of teams in Maryland that are successful at the regional or national level are not supportive of players participating in ODP?
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Actually I have found the vast majority of all coaches to be very helpful. I am not aware of any team that has told kids not to come out. That did happen a few years ago, but I think that people see the dual benefit of having ODP players from their club. I would assume coaches see it as attractive to see their players move up the ladder in the ODP/national team system.
The teams that have the most success out of state will likely have more ODP players, therefore it presents more possibilities of conflicts that we try to avoid, but sometimes can't. Probably the biggest area is the international trip where club coaches would need to release their ODP players from any potential event they may be in. (This year the Jefferson Cup conflicts with our international dates). Most coaches see the long term value of their players experiencing games in Argentina or Scotland as being greater than going to another tournament in the states. We certainly feel those players come back and make their club teams better for cup play in the spring.
So, I have been extremely pleased with the relationship with the club coaches with very few exceptions.
www.ktsoccerworld.com
Coach,
What are the dates of the Scotland and Argentina in 2008?
Thank you. ODP Parent.
Departure dates are March 19th. Scotland returns the 26th and Argentina the morning of the 17th.
Let me know if there are any other questions and feel free to e-mail me at ktsoccerworld@aol.com if you wish.
I've always wondered why different dates are used for age cut offs in ODP and club play. Can you explain, and also discuss whether they have considered any changes so that both either use a calendar year or the age groupings for clubs. Thanks.
Numbers on the 92s re players trying out from ast year.
Similar numbers to 91s in terms of numbers who are in Academy clubs:
8 (maybe 9) in Academies
2 in US U-17 Residency
Of the 13 other players available from last year's pool; 11 tried out (10 made the pool again).
Regarding the dates for age group cut offs for ODP and clubs - GREAT QUESTION.
ODP dates of January 1st are in line with international (FIFA) cutoff dates. It wasn't always that way with FIFA. Until the early 90s FIFA youth competitions used the August 1st birth-date as the cutoff for the U-16 and U-20 World Cups. (Interestingly a country won the Youth WORLD CUP in 89 with all players miraculously being born in August of the cutoff year!)
When FIFA moved to Jan 1st US Youth Soccer stayed at August 1st using the rationale that that would keep the players within their school year classes. Some ok thinking behind that, but it certainly presented problems when going to international tournaments.
US Youth soccer has not changed - YET. I do believe it will happen at some point With credit to the Academy program they are having Jan 1 cut-offs for their club teams - something I believe makes more sense.
What is your ruling if a 95 is good enough to play up on the 94 team? Do you try keeping all the players in their age group?
At the state level we always keep players within age groups. This gives them the best chance to make the regional level. We do try and have teams scrimmage older teams to provide better challenges (the need to play faster as this helps them tremendously at the regional level).
At the regional level we have generally done the same for the same reason (the events their age groups play in lead to their respective national teams). The exception that I can think of was Freddy Adu who was allowed to play up at the regional level in his first years with ODP. I would recommend that a player with the talent to be a major player at an older age group should definitely try and play up in club ball. That will really help that player (assuming he has the psychological maturity to hang with the older players).
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